JPWatkins
7:42 pm on March 2, 2011 444 days agoReply
With the cameras, improved graphics, even more svelte form, other improvements, and maintaining original price and capacities, I’d say they knocked it out of the park (but of course the android collective will pooh-pooh it all the way into bankruptcy court.)
GotWake
2:18 am on March 3, 2011 444 days agoReply
Apple moves to where the puck is going to be. It still amazes me how arrogant some of these companies act. I guess it does make it entertaining.
rastard
2:53 am on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
So let me be the first person here to pooh-pooh.
“Knocked it out of the park”? Really? For what is essentially a minor incremental upgrade? Perhaps my expectations are just overly high, but I’m not seeing *any* innovative new functionality/technology in the iPad2 that wasn’t already available in the iPad or the iPhone4. *That* to me was really disappointing.
To reach the “knock it out of the park” bar, I’d expect the iPad2 to be something that would have existing iPad owners clammering over themselves to upgrade to a new one. This doesn’t seem like that kind of advance to me.
Now, is it better than all of the alternatives currently out there? Definitely. Far better? Not so sure about that — had the Xoom been priced competitively I think its in generally the same ballpark, and if Android’s first 2 years as a phone are any indication for the future, we might expect to see a slew of other Android tablets catching up with with the iPad2 before the iPad3 leaps ahead again.
GotWake
4:26 am on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
This side of Apple putting a nuclear fuel cell in it that only had to be refilled every decade, makes this upgrade a complete failure.
Why don’t you tell us what Apple could have done with the iPad to make it a ‘worthwhile” upgrade.
rastard
10:54 am on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
Why don’t you tell us why you can’t at least make an attempt at common courtesy with the tone of your replies?
I never said it wasn’t a “worthwhile” upgrade — I simply said I was disappointed that there wasn’t more and that this wasn’t close to “knocked out of the park” for me. What could Apple have done? I actually don’t know, but I’d know when I see it.
When Apple came out with the original iPhone, it had all kinds of capabilities/features that I couldn’t have even imagined possible in a mobile phone. Same thing with the iPad – before using one hands-on, I would never have pictured a device of its form factor being as useful as it has proved to be. The iPhone4′s retina display also was such an advancement. Even the sleekness of the latest MBA kind of blew me away.
Point is, all of these were all hits out of the park because they weren’t just incrementally better versions of something already existing — they represented some form of dramatic leap of technology or usability. Is there something about the iPad2 that represents such a leap for you? I’m not seeing anything…
GotWake
1:50 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago
“Even the sleekness of the latest MBA kind of blew me away.”
What changed about the MBA?
Thinner and lighter
Slightly better screen resolution
slightly faster
What changed with iPad 2
Thinner and lighter
2x CPU 9x GPU – a lot faster
Two cameras
gyroscope
So, the new MBA blew you away and the iPad doesn’t. Sorry, but this wasn’t just a “minor incremental upgrade”.
Seriously? Out of my 13 line post all you can do is attack the one line that my wording identifies as the weakest example? How about actually addressing the meat –which is the other 12 lines?
You can keep repeating “Sorry, but this wasn’t just a “minor incremental upgrade” all you want, but unless you’re able to point out specific features/technology that weren’t already present in existing Apple products, that’s all this is.
Not a single one of the things you identified as “what changed with the iPad2″ is something that wasn’t already innovated and present in an existing product that Apple users were already accustomed to:
1) Thinner and lighter: sure, but only incrementally (offering another option with a smaller form factor would have blown me away, but yes, I’m aware Steve has said there wouldn’t be one).
2) 2x CPU 9x GPU – a lot faster: Dude, don’t know how to tell you, but simply increasing the speed of something is the very definition of an incremental change.
3) Two cameras: Already present in the iPhone4 and iPT.
4) gyroscope: whooptido. Now it has a feature that even the Samsung Galaxy tab already had. Also already present in the iPhone4 and IPT.
rastard
1:21 am on March 4, 2011 443 days ago
Oh, and “What changed about the MBA?”
You actually missed the one change that was most relevant for *me*: SSD drives coming standard. Sure, they apparently were present as an upgrade for the prior models, but the pricing was prohibitive considering the drive size made them essentially useless.
GotWake
1:34 am on March 4, 2011 443 days ago
I just get tired of people like you talking down on a product. You Pooh Pooh on it and then talk about how the MBA really wowed you. You point out that the camera was present in the iP4, then talk about me missing the SSD which was already available for the MBA. I don’t think you can count it when it’s already an option. You just like to contradict yourself on a regular basis……..
rastard
2:29 am on March 4, 2011 443 days ago
Truthfully, at the time I originally wrote “Even the sleekness of the latest MBA kind of blew me away,” I wasn’t even aware that the 2009 upgrade to the MBA had offered the SSD option. If I had been, the latest MBA probably would have wowed me less than it did. So I take it back; the advances of the 2010 MBA actually sucked. There. Happy now?
You’re making false analogies though. The old MBA apparently only offered a 64GB SSD (a size that made it pretty much useless) for a $1000 upgrade cost while the new MBA comes with a 128GB SSD stock, and offers a 256GB upgrade (that makes it highly useable) for only $300 more. The iPad2, in contrast, appears to be offering only a crappy iPT-quaiity camera, a step *backwards* from the great camera on the existing iPhone4. Not exactly the same.
But your point still stands — my including the 2010 MBA update among my examples really didn’t support my argument.
Zee
4:23 am on March 4, 2011 442 days ago
@rastard. Allow me to ramble. The trick in running a business is to grow the business, and in this case to be promethean, while not suffering like Prometheus or Icarus. And whatever historic mistakes Apple made in the past, along with the perceived advantages an open system has, I wouldn’t ever imagine that Apple will allow the same outcome, second, even third etc time around. Conventional thinkers have conventional predictions, and often lose for it. Of course the worry is what will Apple do. And yet when you have the advantage, and no one knows what you’ll do, then that can be the advantage in itself. This iteration was about timing… So far there’s no either evidence that the smart money is trading places. Say the kitty grows to $100 bin and no debt, that’s a lot of powder… which is why the shareholders probably really like Dr. R. Sugar.
rastard
5:54 am on March 4, 2011 442 days ago
@zee – Of the ancient Greeks, it’s actually Narcissus, not Prometheus or Icarus I’m concerned about.
Zee
9:27 am on March 4, 2011 442 days ago
@rastard. Hmm. Well let me tell you something *Narcissism* and to be *Narcissistic* are perfectly fine and not pathological under certain circumstances or conditions : 1.) *Naturally* for the sake of *Self Preservation*, it’s okay. 1.1. 1.2, 1.3 etc. 2.) After one has *Survived, too much*. 2.1) Having survived too much one will be endowed with *Spiritual Gifts*. 2.1.1. Typically *Charisma* is overlooked as a spiritual gift : On a more *Practical Level*, an example of one endowed with spiritual gifts as a result of surviving too much would be the stunt motorcyclist *Evil Knieval* who probably broke every bone in his body, at least twice, including the ones in his head. I would wager that the spiritual gifts Knieval received after surviving too much was, he could tell you better than any meteorologist in history when it was going to rain, and probably by a factor of 24 hours Further examples of Americans endowed with spiritual gifts and who were not *Pathologically Narcissistic* might include *Hugh Hefner* or… I would wager that after Hefner had survived too much *Bad Sex* that he’d be able to look with his one good *Hairy Eye* at a camel toe from 10 yards away and immediately know who’d be the next *Kegel Exercise Champ of America* … capable of picking up a pencil from an ordinary squatting position … sorry. I digressed. What were we talking about? Oh yeah : Apple : They’re doing what they’re supposed to be doing. And they’re fine. What about you. How are you doing?
JPWatkins
3:26 am on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
LOL,
I’m disappointed in *you,* rastard
As the saying goes, “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a wonderful Christmas!”
Regarding price, the fact is it’s *impossible* for the Xoom to be priced competitively. They probably can’t make any money on it priced where it is.
As far as Android devices catching up, I fundamentally I disagree with you that Android OS or Honeycomb can even compete with iOS (and this disregards what I see as inevitable legal problems for Android.)
Frankly, I was very pleasantly surprised.
I expected Apple to just dribble out improvements in order to just constantly stay ahead of the competition, but I think they just broke their spirit with the iPad 2. The Androids now must realize for sure that they simply cannot make money competing with Apple in this space.
The iPad 2 has a back camera ,which I wanted, but did not expect.
The graphics are better than expected.
The form factor really stunned me and makes competitors look like they’re back in the 1980′s.
The only thing I was hoping for that did not materialize is a retina display (I think for the iPad a 220 ppi screen would be sufficient to produce the retina effect.)Bbut I was prepared not to get that since the manufacturing glitches were well known. It will have to wait for iPad 3 which will probably have a quad core processor and something else that will crush the competition. I predict the next obvious big change will be an innovation enabling inexpensive unified hardware.
rastard
11:14 am on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
“As far as Android devices catching up, I fundamentally I disagree with you that Android OS or Honeycomb can even compete with iOS (and this disregards what I see as inevitable legal problems for Android.)”
Android as an OS (and Android devices) have already leapfrogged iOS and the iPhone4 in a number of different ways. Am I saying that Android phones are better than iPhones? Absolutely not — but there’s enough parity that buying an iPhone instead of the competition isn’t anywhere near the kind of no-brainer today that it was 2 years ago — and as a result today a *lot* of people are opting for Android phones instead (for a variety of different reasons), and the gap seems to be increasing. Considering Apple had a nearly 2 year head start, Android’s growth has actually been pretty impressive.
What this suggests is that Apple will need to keep executing flawlessly to stay ahead with tablets. From a technology and usability standpoint, Android has already gone from zero to being in the range of the iPad (that was my point about the Xoom). At this time, there’s little reason to buy an Android tablet since they don’t really offer anything above and beyond the iPad2 (and cost more), but if Android continues its breakneck pace of development, it won’t be long before they do have models offering features/capabilities above and beyond (or simply different than) the iPad, that people might be willing to buy despite their costing more.
Which of us would have thought 2 years ago that Android phones would be outselling iPhones nearly 2:1? Yet some reports have indicated that they already are (personally, I don’t believe that’s actually the case yet — but it now seems inevitable that it will happen sometime soon).
conshmillo
11:36 am on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
Judging by Google’s market cap that “out selling” doesn’t do them much good.
rastard
12:35 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
I’d beg to differ. If Google wasn’t making headway and “out selling”, their market cap don’t you think that their market cap might have actually receded significantly instead of just having see-sawed laterally?
Similarly, one could assert that Apple’s market cap growth (and the fact that Apple is generating more profits than all other handset manufacturers combined ) is evidence that Android’s [low-margin] growth really hasn’t had any impact on AAPL. I’d beg to differ on that too though — if Android didn’t exist, Apple would undoubtedly have sold far more iPhones than it has.
hoomy
4:42 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago
It bears repeating that “out selling” is not the same as “out doling”: the giveaway model exhausts the market through qualitative failure. Slow + steady always wins the race.
JPWatkins
4:19 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
We’ll have to agree to disagree about Android.
While it has some functionality, I would never use it for myself and think it would be risky to use it for mission critical tasks. But the IT folks will likely overlook the problems since it is designed to appear highly optimized for enterprise administration. In that respect it is much like Windows.
With the plethora of malware and the ease of rooting Android, doubt that the IT guy who approves the use of Android in the enterprise is going to hold onto his job for long.
rastard
1:29 am on March 4, 2011 443 days ago
I suspect JPW is referring to this, which would resolve those concerns:
I was actually referring more to the general insecurity of the system as a whole. I would be concerned about having any valuable business information residing on an Android device. iPhones have their problems, but Apple seems a more competent, focused, and motivated curator of security than Google.
conshmillo
8:14 am on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
I think the biggest and most pleasant surprise was Stevio showing up and being as enthusiastic as ever. If he is fighting some nasty disease he is certainly not showing it. Whatever it is he is fighting, may the force be with him. As for iPad, it looks good and I’ll be getting one on opening day, but aside from the processor upgrade and having the cameras there is not much to be crazy about. That said, it will still sell like hotcakes. I wouldn’t go with Xoom for enterprise, nor for personal. Not part of my universe. If someone wants to be champion in their neighborhood for keeping up with Android updates (and Windows drivers), go for Xooms and Droids. I’ll rather be focusing on other things.
rastard
11:22 am on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
Yeah, Steve’s appearance was very cool.
Not asking you specifically, but how much of a selling point are the dual cameras? I get the forward-facing camera; although beyond an initial trial I haven’t facetimed anyone, I can see the draw in having one for people to use on the iPad. The rearward-facing camera though? Are people really wanting to walk around using their iPad as a camera/webcam to take/show pictures of other things? The device size/form factor seems to make that not very useful — and the initial reviews I’ve read seem to be indicating that the camera quality is subpar to those in the iPhone4. What’s the draw?
conshmillo
12:16 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
I think the rear camera is necessity. Apple is expecting iPad to be widely adopted by enterprise. I can see myriad of situations where worker needs to take a shot of something and keep it in records. Insurance agent would be a good example. It would be counter productive to be taking another device from the pocket, taking pictures with it and then having to transfer them to iPad for filing.
rastard
12:41 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
Okay. That makes sense.
Seems like for the vast bulk of users this wouldn’t be much of a draw, but I see your point — if incrementally Apple can sell XX% more iPads due to broader enterprise adoption, that’s a lot of bucks.
Also, even if virtually no one else ever uses the rear camera in practice, it’ll still be perceived as a plus that it has one… (despite all the marketing, I still haven’t met anyone who actually uses facetime)
nolavabo
9:41 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago
Does meeting one online count?
Our household uses Facetime 3-4 times a week. It’s mainly my wife and my son, and less often myself, talking to relatives who also own iPhone 4s.
That’s 50% of the reason I’ll be buying an iPad2 ASAP; the iPhone4 is too small for anything other than 1:1, while the iPad can do group:group. The other 50% is my 2.5yr old son who is already hooked on iOS activities, courtesy of our iPhones and his cousins’ iPad1.
rastard
2:49 am on March 4, 2011 442 days ago
Sorry, hope I didn’t come across as dissing Facetime. Conceptually, I think it’s a really great idea and it was a big selling point for me, but in practice, I don’t use it — and none of *my* iPhone4 using friends seem to ever use it either* (then again, most of us don’t have kids). It appears that video calls with family members seems to be the primary use case for Facetime — at least that’s what I’ve determined from the large representative sample here of you and SB.
My point was, even if it ends up that most people don’t actually use the rear-facing camera in practice, it’s still a great selling point to have it, for exactly the reasons that Consh, JPW, and others have already cited.
* “Does meeting one online count?” You actually triggered a reminder about some friends of mine who *do* actually use Facetime. A buddy of mine travels a lot for work, and apparently he and his wife use if frequently for um, intimate moments, while he’s on the road.
eatingbeets
10:48 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
eatingbeets
10:56 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago
no image embedding… womp womp
JPWatkins
4:12 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
I agree with Cosh. The rear camera is a necessity.
It’s not about serious photography, but think of it as a basic input device. Scanning, capturing text, documentation, etc. Also very important for video conferencing. It’s how you show people things. How you make sure both people are on the same page about x (what the job is, what needs to be done, what the problem is, etc.)
Then for casual use as a camera, fewer devices is better.
Haven’t seen the specs yet, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s not as good as the iPhone 4. The thinner you make it the harder it is to get a good camera in there. I consider the iPod touch camera unacceptably low res and the iPhone camera just acceptable.
Re the usefulness of facetime, I personally held out buying exclusively for that feature – I want the grandparents to be able to chat with their grandkids. That’s at least 2 upcoming purchases. As for the rear camera, my 4 and 5 year old will love playing with it – they try with a regular digital camera, but have trouble framing.
GotWake
11:07 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
So, Which version are you guys getting? WiFi, CDMA or GSM
SB
12:53 am on March 4, 2011 443 days ago
WiFi, as it is strictly for home use and I can’t tolerate current cellular data rates.
caruso2323
7:08 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
I agree with both Consh and JPM … The rear camera is a necessity :
1) Scanning … Just to emphasize JPM’s point … iPad2 being FLAT at the bottom, this makes it handy to lay it on a GLASS stand as it prevents movement and resulting blurring…
2) One need to remember that the KEY thing about ANY mobile device is having the ability to do things not done before in places NEVER done before the spread of mobile devices … So if one is USING the iPad 2 the need may arise to take a pic, make a scan or get a translation with an app such as Prizmo or Babel.
The photo management of pics (when not captured on the camera roll) on mobile devices (iP/iPt) is a drag. You would rather have those pics / scans on your iPad taken while not on the go, than on these devices for editing reasons and minimizing the synchronization time.
But I am rather skeptical about the cam quality as I expect it to be on par with the iPT4
Also notice that unlike the Xoom , the iPad does not have a built-in flash
4) Real Estate agents are bound to use an iPad (in addition to their cell phones which may not have a video cam functionality for extended recording) to display houses on sales to potential buyers.
5) It is handy for FaceTime… As it is possible to transmit the rear camera displaying the environment while video calling.
The only limiting factor of FaceTime is its incompatibility with Windows… and partial compatibility with iP3gs and previous iPT’s … This can be compensated through the use of Skype (which does not take advantage of the back camera) for cross-platform compatibility …
There must be other advantages besides the above 5 ones…
caruso2323
8:55 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
My expectations as an INVESTOR were exceeded by the following :
1) SJ’s launching it while appearing with the same level of energy and little if any thinner
2) The March 11 Launch date in “volume” quantity sustained by item 3 below :
3) The End of March availability in up to 26 countries (pending approval of authorities : I take that for the 3g version)
4) The deployment of A5′s as it bodes well not just for the iPad 2′s but also for iP5, iPt5, and ATV2 as this will help in not just face-lifting the refreshed products but also working the margins down
5) Those magnetic covers is a brilliant idea that will also help bring down margins due to their appeal.
6) The “over” 100 Millions iP’s sold data point.
7) A lighter iPad (-0.2 lb) There was no “Sell on the News” this time … I attribute that to SJ’s appearance than to the investor reaction to the iPad 2
However , some other expectations were not met regarding :
A) Apple still playing the “Mountains come to Mohamed” game with Enterprise … (Large Business Corporations ) Still relying on Apple fans to get a toe inside (instead of a foothold)… Hopefully those fans are not just CEO’s but include Middle Management …
The ONLY Business interest highlighted in Apple’s Video was salesforce.com with people around the conference table…
B) Muted innovations in terms of the greater capacity at the same price, display quality, battery life, whatever that would have Wow’ed over the Xoom besides the “cool factor”so that I would feel confident that Apple has better chances at dominating the tablet market …
As a Mac user I will upgrade from my iPodTouch 4g to the iPad 2 because I cannot afford to procrastinate … I need it and avoided buying the iPad 1 because of the lack of cameras (a BLUNDER by Apple who is keen on promoting FT) and the low speed and memory … Had I bought the iPad 1 last year, I would NOT have upgraded to the iPad 2 as I badly WANT a retina display, and leap onto a quad-core processor E/W that new graphic that is touted as being 100 Times faster than that on iPad 1 , and up to 10 times faster than iPad 2… I guess I will upgrade to the iPad 3, and pass my future iPad 2 to my gf so that I could FT with her , while keeping my iPT4 as I will not upgrade to iPT 5 for the same reasons… Hopefully the iPad 3 will have a greater battery life and lose another 0.2 lb, in addition to a ThunderBolt port to accelerate back-ups from a potential 128 GB …
nolavabo
9:58 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days agoReply
Yes, let’s talk about AAPL, not Apple for a bit.
By getting it out in March, the big initial spike in sales will be part of this quarter. Throw in the minor benefit that Q1 (the Xmas Q) ended on Dec 25, and you can sneak in an extra holiday week there as well. Also, SJobs mentioned they recently sold the 100millionth iPhone, which puts Apple on track to sell 16mln iPhones this Q.
Net result? With such explosive growth in iPhone/iPad sales, there will probably two major points at the April 20 earnings CC.
1) Q2 EPS will match, maybe exceed Q1. This will be huge as traditionally Q2 is weakest, Q1 is strongest. We may see even greater YoY EPS growth than last Q as well. 81% is possible.
2) iPad revenue will probably exceed Mac revenue. A new revenue stream exceeds Mac, and inside a 12 month period. Incredible.
How does this translate to the PPS? I am now operating with the expectation that we will see $394-397 (three different TA systems land inside this range) just before earnings as analysts and hedge funds do their homework and start realising what a cash juggernaut this company is. I’ll post more in my other thread about P/E closer to earnings.
JPWatkins 7:42 pm on March 2, 2011 444 days ago Reply
With the cameras, improved graphics, even more svelte form, other improvements, and maintaining original price and capacities, I’d say they knocked it out of the park (but of course the android collective will pooh-pooh it all the way into bankruptcy court.)
GotWake 2:18 am on March 3, 2011 444 days ago Reply
Apple moves to where the puck is going to be. It still amazes me how arrogant some of these companies act. I guess it does make it entertaining.
rastard 2:53 am on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
So let me be the first person here to pooh-pooh.
“Knocked it out of the park”? Really? For what is essentially a minor incremental upgrade? Perhaps my expectations are just overly high, but I’m not seeing *any* innovative new functionality/technology in the iPad2 that wasn’t already available in the iPad or the iPhone4. *That* to me was really disappointing.
To reach the “knock it out of the park” bar, I’d expect the iPad2 to be something that would have existing iPad owners clammering over themselves to upgrade to a new one. This doesn’t seem like that kind of advance to me.
Now, is it better than all of the alternatives currently out there? Definitely. Far better? Not so sure about that — had the Xoom been priced competitively I think its in generally the same ballpark, and if Android’s first 2 years as a phone are any indication for the future, we might expect to see a slew of other Android tablets catching up with with the iPad2 before the iPad3 leaps ahead again.
GotWake 4:26 am on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
This side of Apple putting a nuclear fuel cell in it that only had to be refilled every decade, makes this upgrade a complete failure.
Why don’t you tell us what Apple could have done with the iPad to make it a ‘worthwhile” upgrade.
rastard 10:54 am on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
Why don’t you tell us why you can’t at least make an attempt at common courtesy with the tone of your replies?
I never said it wasn’t a “worthwhile” upgrade — I simply said I was disappointed that there wasn’t more and that this wasn’t close to “knocked out of the park” for me. What could Apple have done? I actually don’t know, but I’d know when I see it.
When Apple came out with the original iPhone, it had all kinds of capabilities/features that I couldn’t have even imagined possible in a mobile phone. Same thing with the iPad – before using one hands-on, I would never have pictured a device of its form factor being as useful as it has proved to be. The iPhone4′s retina display also was such an advancement. Even the sleekness of the latest MBA kind of blew me away.
Point is, all of these were all hits out of the park because they weren’t just incrementally better versions of something already existing — they represented some form of dramatic leap of technology or usability. Is there something about the iPad2 that represents such a leap for you? I’m not seeing anything…
GotWake 1:50 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago
“Even the sleekness of the latest MBA kind of blew me away.”
What changed about the MBA?
Thinner and lighter
Slightly better screen resolution
slightly faster
What changed with iPad 2
Thinner and lighter
2x CPU 9x GPU – a lot faster
Two cameras
gyroscope
So, the new MBA blew you away and the iPad doesn’t. Sorry, but this wasn’t just a “minor incremental upgrade”.
rastard 1:10 am on March 4, 2011 443 days ago
@gotwake
Seriously? Out of my 13 line post all you can do is attack the one line that my wording identifies as the weakest example? How about actually addressing the meat –which is the other 12 lines?
You can keep repeating “Sorry, but this wasn’t just a “minor incremental upgrade” all you want, but unless you’re able to point out specific features/technology that weren’t already present in existing Apple products, that’s all this is.
Not a single one of the things you identified as “what changed with the iPad2″ is something that wasn’t already innovated and present in an existing product that Apple users were already accustomed to:
1) Thinner and lighter: sure, but only incrementally (offering another option with a smaller form factor would have blown me away, but yes, I’m aware Steve has said there wouldn’t be one).
2) 2x CPU 9x GPU – a lot faster: Dude, don’t know how to tell you, but simply increasing the speed of something is the very definition of an incremental change.
3) Two cameras: Already present in the iPhone4 and iPT.
4) gyroscope: whooptido. Now it has a feature that even the Samsung Galaxy tab already had. Also already present in the iPhone4 and IPT.
rastard 1:21 am on March 4, 2011 443 days ago
Oh, and “What changed about the MBA?”
You actually missed the one change that was most relevant for *me*: SSD drives coming standard. Sure, they apparently were present as an upgrade for the prior models, but the pricing was prohibitive considering the drive size made them essentially useless.
GotWake 1:34 am on March 4, 2011 443 days ago
I just get tired of people like you talking down on a product. You Pooh Pooh on it and then talk about how the MBA really wowed you. You point out that the camera was present in the iP4, then talk about me missing the SSD which was already available for the MBA. I don’t think you can count it when it’s already an option. You just like to contradict yourself on a regular basis……..
rastard 2:29 am on March 4, 2011 443 days ago
Truthfully, at the time I originally wrote “Even the sleekness of the latest MBA kind of blew me away,” I wasn’t even aware that the 2009 upgrade to the MBA had offered the SSD option. If I had been, the latest MBA probably would have wowed me less than it did. So I take it back; the advances of the 2010 MBA actually sucked. There. Happy now?
You’re making false analogies though. The old MBA apparently only offered a 64GB SSD (a size that made it pretty much useless) for a $1000 upgrade cost while the new MBA comes with a 128GB SSD stock, and offers a 256GB upgrade (that makes it highly useable) for only $300 more. The iPad2, in contrast, appears to be offering only a crappy iPT-quaiity camera, a step *backwards* from the great camera on the existing iPhone4. Not exactly the same.
But your point still stands — my including the 2010 MBA update among my examples really didn’t support my argument.
Zee 4:23 am on March 4, 2011 442 days ago
@rastard. Allow me to ramble. The trick in running a business is to grow the business, and in this case to be promethean, while not suffering like Prometheus or Icarus. And whatever historic mistakes Apple made in the past, along with the perceived advantages an open system has, I wouldn’t ever imagine that Apple will allow the same outcome, second, even third etc time around. Conventional thinkers have conventional predictions, and often lose for it. Of course the worry is what will Apple do. And yet when you have the advantage, and no one knows what you’ll do, then that can be the advantage in itself. This iteration was about timing… So far there’s no either evidence that the smart money is trading places. Say the kitty grows to $100 bin and no debt, that’s a lot of powder… which is why the shareholders probably really like Dr. R. Sugar.
rastard 5:54 am on March 4, 2011 442 days ago
@zee – Of the ancient Greeks, it’s actually Narcissus, not Prometheus or Icarus I’m concerned about.
Zee 9:27 am on March 4, 2011 442 days ago
@rastard. Hmm. Well let me tell you something
*Narcissism* and to be *Narcissistic* are perfectly fine and not pathological under certain circumstances or conditions : 1.) *Naturally* for the sake of *Self Preservation*, it’s okay. 1.1. 1.2, 1.3 etc. 2.) After one has *Survived, too much*. 2.1) Having survived too much one will be endowed with *Spiritual Gifts*. 2.1.1. Typically *Charisma* is overlooked as a spiritual gift : On a more *Practical Level*, an example of one endowed with spiritual gifts as a result of surviving too much would be the stunt motorcyclist *Evil Knieval* who probably broke every bone in his body, at least twice, including the ones in his head. I would wager that the spiritual gifts Knieval received after surviving too much was, he could tell you better than any meteorologist in history when it was going to rain, and probably by a factor of 24 hours 
Further examples of Americans endowed with spiritual gifts and who were not *Pathologically Narcissistic* might include *Hugh Hefner* or… I would wager that after Hefner had survived too much *Bad Sex* that he’d be able to look with his one good *Hairy Eye* at a camel toe from 10 yards away and immediately know who’d be the next *Kegel Exercise Champ of America* … capable of picking up a pencil from an ordinary squatting position … sorry. I digressed. What were we talking about? Oh yeah : Apple : They’re doing what they’re supposed to be doing. And they’re fine. What about you. How are you doing?
JPWatkins 3:26 am on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
LOL,
I’m disappointed in *you,* rastard
As the saying goes, “If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a wonderful Christmas!”
Regarding price, the fact is it’s *impossible* for the Xoom to be priced competitively. They probably can’t make any money on it priced where it is.
As far as Android devices catching up, I fundamentally I disagree with you that Android OS or Honeycomb can even compete with iOS (and this disregards what I see as inevitable legal problems for Android.)
Frankly, I was very pleasantly surprised.
I expected Apple to just dribble out improvements in order to just constantly stay ahead of the competition, but I think they just broke their spirit with the iPad 2. The Androids now must realize for sure that they simply cannot make money competing with Apple in this space.
The iPad 2 has a back camera ,which I wanted, but did not expect.
The graphics are better than expected.
The form factor really stunned me and makes competitors look like they’re back in the 1980′s.
The only thing I was hoping for that did not materialize is a retina display (I think for the iPad a 220 ppi screen would be sufficient to produce the retina effect.)Bbut I was prepared not to get that since the manufacturing glitches were well known. It will have to wait for iPad 3 which will probably have a quad core processor and something else that will crush the competition. I predict the next obvious big change will be an innovation enabling inexpensive unified hardware.
rastard 11:14 am on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
“As far as Android devices catching up, I fundamentally I disagree with you that Android OS or Honeycomb can even compete with iOS (and this disregards what I see as inevitable legal problems for Android.)”
Android as an OS (and Android devices) have already leapfrogged iOS and the iPhone4 in a number of different ways. Am I saying that Android phones are better than iPhones? Absolutely not — but there’s enough parity that buying an iPhone instead of the competition isn’t anywhere near the kind of no-brainer today that it was 2 years ago — and as a result today a *lot* of people are opting for Android phones instead (for a variety of different reasons), and the gap seems to be increasing. Considering Apple had a nearly 2 year head start, Android’s growth has actually been pretty impressive.
What this suggests is that Apple will need to keep executing flawlessly to stay ahead with tablets. From a technology and usability standpoint, Android has already gone from zero to being in the range of the iPad (that was my point about the Xoom). At this time, there’s little reason to buy an Android tablet since they don’t really offer anything above and beyond the iPad2 (and cost more), but if Android continues its breakneck pace of development, it won’t be long before they do have models offering features/capabilities above and beyond (or simply different than) the iPad, that people might be willing to buy despite their costing more.
Which of us would have thought 2 years ago that Android phones would be outselling iPhones nearly 2:1? Yet some reports have indicated that they already are (personally, I don’t believe that’s actually the case yet — but it now seems inevitable that it will happen sometime soon).
conshmillo 11:36 am on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
Judging by Google’s market cap that “out selling” doesn’t do them much good.
rastard 12:35 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
I’d beg to differ. If Google wasn’t making headway and “out selling”, their market cap don’t you think that their market cap might have actually receded significantly instead of just having see-sawed laterally?
Similarly, one could assert that Apple’s market cap growth (and the fact that Apple is generating more profits than all other handset manufacturers combined ) is evidence that Android’s [low-margin] growth really hasn’t had any impact on AAPL. I’d beg to differ on that too though — if Android didn’t exist, Apple would undoubtedly have sold far more iPhones than it has.
hoomy 4:42 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago
It bears repeating that “out selling” is not the same as “out doling”: the giveaway model exhausts the market through qualitative failure. Slow + steady always wins the race.
JPWatkins 4:19 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
We’ll have to agree to disagree about Android.
While it has some functionality, I would never use it for myself and think it would be risky to use it for mission critical tasks. But the IT folks will likely overlook the problems since it is designed to appear highly optimized for enterprise administration. In that respect it is much like Windows.
Birra 4:41 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
With the plethora of malware and the ease of rooting Android, doubt that the IT guy who approves the use of Android in the enterprise is going to hold onto his job for long.
rastard 1:29 am on March 4, 2011 443 days ago
I suspect JPW is referring to this, which would resolve those concerns:
http://mediacenter.motorola.com/Press-Releases/3LM-and-its-Partners-Announce-Plans-to-Launch-Enterprise-Manager-Solution-for-Android-35c3.aspx
JPWatkins 4:39 pm on March 4, 2011 442 days ago
I was actually referring more to the general insecurity of the system as a whole. I would be concerned about having any valuable business information residing on an Android device. iPhones have their problems, but Apple seems a more competent, focused, and motivated curator of security than Google.
conshmillo 8:14 am on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
I think the biggest and most pleasant surprise was Stevio showing up and being as enthusiastic as ever. If he is fighting some nasty disease he is certainly not showing it. Whatever it is he is fighting, may the force be with him. As for iPad, it looks good and I’ll be getting one on opening day, but aside from the processor upgrade and having the cameras there is not much to be crazy about. That said, it will still sell like hotcakes. I wouldn’t go with Xoom for enterprise, nor for personal. Not part of my universe. If someone wants to be champion in their neighborhood for keeping up with Android updates (and Windows drivers), go for Xooms and Droids. I’ll rather be focusing on other things.
rastard 11:22 am on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
Yeah, Steve’s appearance was very cool.
Not asking you specifically, but how much of a selling point are the dual cameras? I get the forward-facing camera; although beyond an initial trial I haven’t facetimed anyone, I can see the draw in having one for people to use on the iPad. The rearward-facing camera though? Are people really wanting to walk around using their iPad as a camera/webcam to take/show pictures of other things? The device size/form factor seems to make that not very useful — and the initial reviews I’ve read seem to be indicating that the camera quality is subpar to those in the iPhone4. What’s the draw?
conshmillo 12:16 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
I think the rear camera is necessity. Apple is expecting iPad to be widely adopted by enterprise. I can see myriad of situations where worker needs to take a shot of something and keep it in records. Insurance agent would be a good example. It would be counter productive to be taking another device from the pocket, taking pictures with it and then having to transfer them to iPad for filing.
rastard 12:41 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
Okay. That makes sense.
Seems like for the vast bulk of users this wouldn’t be much of a draw, but I see your point — if incrementally Apple can sell XX% more iPads due to broader enterprise adoption, that’s a lot of bucks.
Also, even if virtually no one else ever uses the rear camera in practice, it’ll still be perceived as a plus that it has one…
(despite all the marketing, I still haven’t met anyone who actually uses facetime)
nolavabo 9:41 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago
Does meeting one online count?
Our household uses Facetime 3-4 times a week. It’s mainly my wife and my son, and less often myself, talking to relatives who also own iPhone 4s.
That’s 50% of the reason I’ll be buying an iPad2 ASAP; the iPhone4 is too small for anything other than 1:1, while the iPad can do group:group. The other 50% is my 2.5yr old son who is already hooked on iOS activities, courtesy of our iPhones and his cousins’ iPad1.
rastard 2:49 am on March 4, 2011 442 days ago
Sorry, hope I didn’t come across as dissing Facetime. Conceptually, I think it’s a really great idea and it was a big selling point for me, but in practice, I don’t use it — and none of *my* iPhone4 using friends seem to ever use it either* (then again, most of us don’t have kids). It appears that video calls with family members seems to be the primary use case for Facetime — at least that’s what I’ve determined from the large representative sample here of you and SB.
My point was, even if it ends up that most people don’t actually use the rear-facing camera in practice, it’s still a great selling point to have it, for exactly the reasons that Consh, JPW, and others have already cited.
* “Does meeting one online count?” You actually triggered a reminder about some friends of mine who *do* actually use Facetime. A buddy of mine travels a lot for work, and apparently he and his wife use if frequently for um, intimate moments, while he’s on the road.
eatingbeets 10:48 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f219/jrock666/-1-1.png[/IMG]
*patent pending
eatingbeets 10:56 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago
no image embedding… womp womp
JPWatkins 4:12 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
I agree with Cosh. The rear camera is a necessity.
It’s not about serious photography, but think of it as a basic input device. Scanning, capturing text, documentation, etc. Also very important for video conferencing. It’s how you show people things. How you make sure both people are on the same page about x (what the job is, what needs to be done, what the problem is, etc.)
Then for casual use as a camera, fewer devices is better.
Haven’t seen the specs yet, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s not as good as the iPhone 4. The thinner you make it the harder it is to get a good camera in there. I consider the iPod touch camera unacceptably low res and the iPhone camera just acceptable.
SB 6:27 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
Re the usefulness of facetime, I personally held out buying exclusively for that feature – I want the grandparents to be able to chat with their grandkids. That’s at least 2 upcoming purchases. As for the rear camera, my 4 and 5 year old will love playing with it – they try with a regular digital camera, but have trouble framing.
GotWake 11:07 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
So, Which version are you guys getting? WiFi, CDMA or GSM
SB 12:53 am on March 4, 2011 443 days ago
WiFi, as it is strictly for home use and I can’t tolerate current cellular data rates.
caruso2323 7:08 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
I agree with both Consh and JPM … The rear camera is a necessity :
1) Scanning … Just to emphasize JPM’s point … iPad2 being FLAT at the bottom, this makes it handy to lay it on a GLASS stand as it prevents movement and resulting blurring…
2) One need to remember that the KEY thing about ANY mobile device is having the ability to do things not done before in places NEVER done before the spread of mobile devices … So if one is USING the iPad 2 the need may arise to take a pic, make a scan or get a translation with an app such as Prizmo or Babel.
The photo management of pics (when not captured on the camera roll) on mobile devices (iP/iPt) is a drag. You would rather have those pics / scans on your iPad taken while not on the go, than on these devices for editing reasons and minimizing the synchronization time.
But I am rather skeptical about the cam quality as I expect it to be on par with the iPT4
Also notice that unlike the Xoom , the iPad does not have a built-in flash
4) Real Estate agents are bound to use an iPad (in addition to their cell phones which may not have a video cam functionality for extended recording) to display houses on sales to potential buyers.
5) It is handy for FaceTime… As it is possible to transmit the rear camera displaying the environment while video calling.
The only limiting factor of FaceTime is its incompatibility with Windows… and partial compatibility with iP3gs and previous iPT’s … This can be compensated through the use of Skype (which does not take advantage of the back camera) for cross-platform compatibility …
There must be other advantages besides the above 5 ones…
caruso2323 8:55 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
My expectations as an INVESTOR were exceeded by the following :
There was no “Sell on the News” this time … I attribute that to SJ’s appearance than to the investor reaction to the iPad 2
1) SJ’s launching it while appearing with the same level of energy and little if any thinner
2) The March 11 Launch date in “volume” quantity sustained by item 3 below :
3) The End of March availability in up to 26 countries (pending approval of authorities : I take that for the 3g version)
4) The deployment of A5′s as it bodes well not just for the iPad 2′s but also for iP5, iPt5, and ATV2 as this will help in not just face-lifting the refreshed products but also working the margins down
5) Those magnetic covers is a brilliant idea that will also help bring down margins due to their appeal.
6) The “over” 100 Millions iP’s sold data point.
7) A lighter iPad (-0.2 lb)
However , some other expectations were not met regarding :
A) Apple still playing the “Mountains come to Mohamed” game with Enterprise … (Large Business Corporations ) Still relying on Apple fans to get a toe inside (instead of a foothold)… Hopefully those fans are not just CEO’s but include Middle Management …
The ONLY Business interest highlighted in Apple’s Video was salesforce.com with people around the conference table…
B) Muted innovations in terms of the greater capacity at the same price, display quality, battery life, whatever that would have Wow’ed over the Xoom besides the “cool factor”so that I would feel confident that Apple has better chances at dominating the tablet market …
As a Mac user I will upgrade from my iPodTouch 4g to the iPad 2 because I cannot afford to procrastinate … I need it and avoided buying the iPad 1 because of the lack of cameras (a BLUNDER by Apple who is keen on promoting FT) and the low speed and memory … Had I bought the iPad 1 last year, I would NOT have upgraded to the iPad 2 as I badly WANT a retina display, and leap onto a quad-core processor E/W that new graphic that is touted as being 100 Times faster than that on iPad 1 , and up to 10 times faster than iPad 2… I guess I will upgrade to the iPad 3, and pass my future iPad 2 to my gf so that I could FT with her , while keeping my iPT4 as I will not upgrade to iPT 5 for the same reasons… Hopefully the iPad 3 will have a greater battery life and lose another 0.2 lb, in addition to a ThunderBolt port to accelerate back-ups from a potential 128 GB …
nolavabo 9:58 pm on March 3, 2011 443 days ago Reply
Yes, let’s talk about AAPL, not Apple for a bit.
By getting it out in March, the big initial spike in sales will be part of this quarter. Throw in the minor benefit that Q1 (the Xmas Q) ended on Dec 25, and you can sneak in an extra holiday week there as well. Also, SJobs mentioned they recently sold the 100millionth iPhone, which puts Apple on track to sell 16mln iPhones this Q.
Net result? With such explosive growth in iPhone/iPad sales, there will probably two major points at the April 20 earnings CC.
1) Q2 EPS will match, maybe exceed Q1. This will be huge as traditionally Q2 is weakest, Q1 is strongest. We may see even greater YoY EPS growth than last Q as well. 81% is possible.
2) iPad revenue will probably exceed Mac revenue. A new revenue stream exceeds Mac, and inside a 12 month period. Incredible.
How does this translate to the PPS? I am now operating with the expectation that we will see $394-397 (three different TA systems land inside this range) just before earnings as analysts and hedge funds do their homework and start realising what a cash juggernaut this company is. I’ll post more in my other thread about P/E closer to earnings.