conshmillo
3:00 pm on February 22, 2012 87 days agoReply
There is no story there. We have agricultural Latino workers working under the same conditions (living in shared rooms, horrible wages) here in the United States. People keep comparing conditions of developing countries to developed countries and get all righteously angry mixing all kinds of things that are not comparable. There are 15-16 years old kids working in McDonalds for wages that when compared to the cost of living here not that much different to those of those Chinese.
I think the reason why those jobs are in China and not in US is the combination of corporate greed, labor unions unreasonableness, excessive ligitation and unwillingness of American public do certain jobs.
JPWatkins
1:23 am on February 23, 2012 87 days agoReply
As a stockholder, and person, I’m glad that Apple is more concerned about work conditions where their products are manufactured than you are.
Apple knows it reflects on them, even if it’s not Apple that is their direct employer.
Apple has mission of creating empowering, world changing products. I think the leadership at Apple has always thought doing good was just as important a part of that mission as doing well. You might say that doing well and doing good are the natural results and rewards of doing that first thing well.
conshmillo
2:48 am on February 23, 2012 87 days agoReply
I don’t think you are concerned at all. You just don’t want to feel guilty for using their product. I don’t feel guilty for using Apple products. I don’t think there is any merit in what New York Times started. Almost all of the products we buy are made in China. If somebody wants to feel bad for buying products from developing countries which have different wages and different conditions than we do, just don’t buy them. Some look at it and say it is exploitation and some look at it and say it is helping those people to have jobs. I read all kinds of dirty posts on Huffington Post about dirty Apple by people that when they are done posting turn on their TV, or PC made in the very same China, in the very same factory about which working conditions they’ve been mumbling about. And I am not conservative, I just think that there is no issue to talk about. As for Apple they would do better for themselves if they didn’t respond to it at all, as by responding to it they are just extending the time it is in spotlight.
I agree w both of you if that’s actually possible. But I don’t think Apple should have remained quiet re. They are doing the best they can and there’s no reason why they can’t or shouldn’t. That being the case. And that being said. If we consider what Apple recently said to Proview. Apple may start suing the mudslingers for defamation.
JPWatkins
5:19 am on February 23, 2012 86 days agoReply
Consh,
You she read what I write, instead of just ranting on about your opinion of what you imagine I think or feel. I have not praised The NYT or Nightline or Huffington Post or Greenpeace. And I haven’t trashed apple in any way. I said I was glad Apple is concerned about their workers—more concerned about them than you are. They should be concerned about them for many reasons—moral, economic, brand identity, sustainability, etc.
That is what I wrote, and that is what I think. Why do you want to make up thoughts feelings or opinions for me when I have stated them clearly in my post?
conshmillo
1:51 pm on February 23, 2012 86 days ago
Oh boy, so when it comes to your imagination about how concerned or unconcerned I feel you know it all. But try to tell you the same thing and you are all puffed up. Also, I am not making up any thoughts or feelings for you, I am just stating my opinion. That’s what it means when someone starts their sentence with words “I think/I don’t think”.
JPWatkins
3:44 pm on February 23, 2012 86 days ago
“There is no story there.”
This (and some of your previous posts on this topic) is my imagination at work, reading your first sentence of this post. And here is more,
“Apple . . . would do better for themselves if they didn’t respond to it at all, . . . ”
“You just don’t want to feel guilty for using their product.”
And this is you not imagining my thoughts or feelings.
At its most basic, it appears that your thesis is, “Everybody is doing it, why blame just Apple? Apple should ignore it.” I agree with the first part,but not the second.
My thesis is, “Apple is the market leader with a very human-centered, helpful, friendly, and benign brand. As the leading brand, they will be attacked and blamed at every opportunity. It’s important they address this issue to protect the brand (and because it’s an important issue.)”
I have a feeling that deep down you mostly agree with me, but you seem stuck on the idea that I don’t that know other companies also use Foxcon and that I have some inner conflict about Chinese labor practices. I can assure you this is not the case.
You can write whatever you want, but if you address me and my motives, I may choose to respond or correct you (which is what this blog is all about, right?:-))
Rest assured, I enjoy and value your opinions, even when I don’t agree. Perhaps I need to sprinkle more emoticons in my posts to keep you from reading my posts as angry rather than as matter of fact?
conshmillo
6:16 pm on February 23, 2012 86 days ago
No, my thesis is WE are doing it, not companies. All of us. So I find it hypocritical that I see comments about how outraged people are about Apple practices when in fact these posters are the very same buyers that do not give a damn about anyone’s conditions as long as they can buy the cheaper product. I find it grotesque that they talk about rights of someone while their direct actions say otherwise. I neither think there are any more horrible conditions at Foxconn than at some areas in US. Agricultural workers in particular. I spend 2 years in a refugee camp in one small room with another 5 people and bunch of trespassing cockroaches. Restrooms being the holes in the ground. I know how hard feels like. Hence, I do not see any issue there.
conshmillo 3:00 pm on February 22, 2012 87 days ago Reply
There is no story there. We have agricultural Latino workers working under the same conditions (living in shared rooms, horrible wages) here in the United States. People keep comparing conditions of developing countries to developed countries and get all righteously angry mixing all kinds of things that are not comparable. There are 15-16 years old kids working in McDonalds for wages that when compared to the cost of living here not that much different to those of those Chinese.
I think the reason why those jobs are in China and not in US is the combination of corporate greed, labor unions unreasonableness, excessive ligitation and unwillingness of American public do certain jobs.
JPWatkins 1:23 am on February 23, 2012 87 days ago Reply
As a stockholder, and person, I’m glad that Apple is more concerned about work conditions where their products are manufactured than you are.
Apple knows it reflects on them, even if it’s not Apple that is their direct employer.
Apple has mission of creating empowering, world changing products. I think the leadership at Apple has always thought doing good was just as important a part of that mission as doing well. You might say that doing well and doing good are the natural results and rewards of doing that first thing well.
conshmillo 2:48 am on February 23, 2012 87 days ago Reply
I don’t think you are concerned at all. You just don’t want to feel guilty for using their product. I don’t feel guilty for using Apple products. I don’t think there is any merit in what New York Times started. Almost all of the products we buy are made in China. If somebody wants to feel bad for buying products from developing countries which have different wages and different conditions than we do, just don’t buy them. Some look at it and say it is exploitation and some look at it and say it is helping those people to have jobs. I read all kinds of dirty posts on Huffington Post about dirty Apple by people that when they are done posting turn on their TV, or PC made in the very same China, in the very same factory about which working conditions they’ve been mumbling about. And I am not conservative, I just think that there is no issue to talk about. As for Apple they would do better for themselves if they didn’t respond to it at all, as by responding to it they are just extending the time it is in spotlight.
Zee 4:12 am on February 23, 2012 86 days ago Reply
I agree w both of you if that’s actually possible. But I don’t think Apple should have remained quiet re. They are doing the best they can and there’s no reason why they can’t or shouldn’t. That being the case. And that being said. If we consider what Apple recently said to Proview. Apple may start suing the mudslingers for defamation.
JPWatkins 5:19 am on February 23, 2012 86 days ago Reply
Consh,
You she read what I write, instead of just ranting on about your opinion of what you imagine I think or feel. I have not praised The NYT or Nightline or Huffington Post or Greenpeace. And I haven’t trashed apple in any way. I said I was glad Apple is concerned about their workers—more concerned about them than you are. They should be concerned about them for many reasons—moral, economic, brand identity, sustainability, etc.
That is what I wrote, and that is what I think. Why do you want to make up thoughts feelings or opinions for me when I have stated them clearly in my post?
conshmillo 1:51 pm on February 23, 2012 86 days ago
Oh boy, so when it comes to your imagination about how concerned or unconcerned I feel you know it all. But try to tell you the same thing and you are all puffed up. Also, I am not making up any thoughts or feelings for you, I am just stating my opinion. That’s what it means when someone starts their sentence with words “I think/I don’t think”.
JPWatkins 3:44 pm on February 23, 2012 86 days ago
“There is no story there.”
This (and some of your previous posts on this topic) is my imagination at work, reading your first sentence of this post. And here is more,
“Apple . . . would do better for themselves if they didn’t respond to it at all, . . . ”
“You just don’t want to feel guilty for using their product.”
And this is you not imagining my thoughts or feelings.
At its most basic, it appears that your thesis is, “Everybody is doing it, why blame just Apple? Apple should ignore it.” I agree with the first part,but not the second.
My thesis is, “Apple is the market leader with a very human-centered, helpful, friendly, and benign brand. As the leading brand, they will be attacked and blamed at every opportunity. It’s important they address this issue to protect the brand (and because it’s an important issue.)”
I have a feeling that deep down you mostly agree with me, but you seem stuck on the idea that I don’t that know other companies also use Foxcon and that I have some inner conflict about Chinese labor practices. I can assure you this is not the case.
You can write whatever you want, but if you address me and my motives, I may choose to respond or correct you (which is what this blog is all about, right?:-))
Rest assured, I enjoy and value your opinions, even when I don’t agree. Perhaps I need to sprinkle more emoticons in my posts to keep you from reading my posts as angry rather than as matter of fact?
conshmillo 6:16 pm on February 23, 2012 86 days ago
No, my thesis is WE are doing it, not companies. All of us. So I find it hypocritical that I see comments about how outraged people are about Apple practices when in fact these posters are the very same buyers that do not give a damn about anyone’s conditions as long as they can buy the cheaper product. I find it grotesque that they talk about rights of someone while their direct actions say otherwise. I neither think there are any more horrible conditions at Foxconn than at some areas in US. Agricultural workers in particular. I spend 2 years in a refugee camp in one small room with another 5 people and bunch of trespassing cockroaches. Restrooms being the holes in the ground. I know how hard feels like. Hence, I do not see any issue there.