Well guys, I’m afraid the iPad’s days are numbered……..
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/26805/
Then again, people better hope that this is a fake HP Slate. Because if it isn’t, this will make for one expensive paper weight 
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http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2010/09/14/nokia-slams-apple-pokes-fun-at-facetime/
Here’s a little advice for Nokia: Instead of focusing on Apple (which makes more profit than all of the mobile industry together), you may want to do a little development in that R&D department. Surely, there is someone with a little innovation at NOK.
It amazes me that companies like msft and nok will spend so much time highlighting and advertising features of the iPhone. It only drives home that Apple sells the cool, must-have products in the minds of customers. When Apple goes multiple carriers in the US, they can have a double funeral for both Nokia and Microsoft.
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sworoc
You’ve got to be kidding me. NOK and Intel spend more in R&D than just about anybody in the industry. Nokia exploded the cell phone industry, and owns patents on a large range of cell related tech.
Their problem is innovating in the customer experience, providing good marketing and utilizing the tech they have developed. What they need is some business deals, partnerships, and promotion of a product into the visible marketplace.
Think about it, if you go ask somebody about a smartphone, they will probably think of the iPhone first. Then Android, then Blackberry, and maybe even remember Windows mobile. If they mention a Nokia product before they get to each of the previous competitors, they have an odd sense of smartphones.
They have no product recognition, but they know how to make phones that work. It’s not a technical problem, but it’s a serious problem. Apple is eating their lunch in that dept.
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rastard
I don’t live in Europe, but my understanding is that people there *do* think of Nokia first when you ask them about smartphones (I never hear the end of “my N900″ has been able to do that forever” from one friend). Any Europeans here who can verify if that’s actually the case?
In the US, I think Nokia has a marketing problem. I can’t recall ever seeing a Nokia commercial on TV, and really couldn’t tell you if their smartphones are good or not — because I’ve never seen one and don’t really know anything about them.
(I’ll agree with you though that Nokia invests a lot in cell phone R&D and will even go further to say that the entire industry is where it is today in large part due to Nokia’s work).
I’m going to have to disagree with both you and electricpig’s representation of the actual Nokia event. Unless there was a lot more than just the Facetime snippet the blog referenced, it doesn’t sound like Nokia “slammed Apple” — Apple appeared to have been mentioned briefly a couple of times, and other companies in the industry were mentioned as well.
Fwiw, I actually think it’s rather funny that the Apple’s Forstall stole Nokia’s tagline in their FaceTime video. If an Adidas exec were on video saying “I was discussing some changes with my development team and told them to Just Do It”, I think that someone from Nike would make fun of that as well…
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Zee
@rastard
Nokia used to have a lot of product placements… don’t know if it was intentional or not; certainly cheap. Especially among the bling bling crowd and celebrities. And part of its marketing included 3 large gallery type stores that were closed down in Chicago, NY, and London. Actually around the time Apple was moving into the neighborhood with its phone.Re Nokia’s IP portfolio. When Nokia wouldn’t fairly license to Apple, Apple went to Ericson. Ericson’s website says their IP portfolio is second to none. Interesting assertion.
Re “it doesn’t sound like Nokia slammed Apple” When comparisons aren’t obviously flattering, they’re usually odious because its nervy and pushy …
Re Forstall stealing the tagline. How can anyone in the biz not discuss these ideas without using the obvious cliches? The making fun of it just epitomizes where all the eyes are. You mentioned Nokia tv commercials. I noticed on YT 4 or 5 from the last 4 months. Very expensive productions. 2 had little robots that reminded me of Android. The reference could confuse a lot of consumers in non US markets. Probably supposed to too.
I think Nokia is aiming to reap from Rim’s disadvantages in India. One of the commercials looked like it was for that mkt.
The one big problem that I see with Nokia, MSFT, and Rim is that they always announce their slam dunks even before leaving the ground, and that’s the best way to get stuffed, which always leaves a long lingering classical memory of failure to score the big one. You’d think by now they’d learn that patience can reward more than overly zealous hype.
@sworoc. With Nokia the problem is probably because they have made too many deals, and partnerships which was just one more method to eat at their margins. Being spread out so far and wide in such high numbers isn’t cheap on the expense account. Everybody wants a piece of the action.
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GotWake
@sworoc
What has Nokia done innovative since 2006? Their last real iconic phone was the N95 back in 2006. They continue to bleed market share. They have absolutely no direction for developers.They spend their time laughing at Apple, putting slides up at their conferences acting like Apple isn’t really any competition. A large patent portfolio from the 90s doesn’t translate into innovation.
I’m no Nokia hater, it just irritates me when companies that are bleeding spend more time targeting another company when they should be focused on how to save themselves.
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sworoc
You mentioned R&D. They’ve got plenty of R, and you could argue that they are doing alright in D. Whether or not the D is creative, we can agree that it is not. Sure, they need to step up innovation.
If they could come up with a “killer” phone, they’ve got all the R&D to put something together. It’s not like their tech portfolio is a tin can with some different lengths of string. They have the tools developed to create a great product. They just need to put things together, and then be good salesmen and sell it.
I agree that they are not “in the game” when it comes to smartphone sales, but I think R&D is their strongest trait, not the weakest. They have plenty of tech available to them.
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rastard
‘I agree that they are not ‚Äúin the game‚Äù when it comes to smartphone sales’
You both must have interesting definitions of “not in the game”. Sure, Nokia is bleeding share and isn’t marketing their Smartphones well enough in the US for me even to know what one looks like. But they’re still, by far, the worldwide leader in smartphone sales (nearly triple those of Apple, fwiw), which by definition seems to make them the leader in the game — at least for the moment: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013
“it just irritates me when companies that are bleeding spend more time targeting another company when they should be focused on how to save themselves.”
“spend more time”? Really? All that your original citation article mentions is a couple of passing mentions during a 75 minute keynote address at a 2 day conference. That hardly seems like “more time” that everything else they’re doing, so can you provide citations to whatever else you’re referring to?
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GotWake
Ok, you got me. Let’s change that to “more time than they should”
“But they‚Äôre still, by far, the worldwide leader in smartphone sales(nearly triple those of Apple, fwiw”
It does seem that we have different definitions. You seem to be impressed that Nokia sells more volume than Apple. The rest of us(at least me) define “in the game” as profit made from those sells.
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rastard
“You seem to be impressed that Nokia sells more volume than Apple. The rest of us(at least me) define ‚Äúin the game‚Äù as profit made from those sells.”
I’m not “impressed” at all. I was simply making an objective statement of fact. Saying “Nokia is the worldwide leader in smartphone SALES”, is not, btw, in contradiction with saying “Apple is the worldwide leader in smartphone PROFITS”.
Even if you now want to redefine the terms to PROFIT and not SALES (just wanted to point out that sworoc originally wrote “when it comes to smartphone SALES”):
Nokia isn’t the leader anymore (http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iphone-operating-profit-nokia-2009-11), but given their profits are still larger than everyone *besides* Apple (feel free to point out if I’m wrong here — I didn’t bother to look that up), it’s still a rather ridiculous assertion that Nokia isn’t “in the game” even if we’re now talking about PROFITS.
Just to be clear… I don’t care about Nokia in the least. I don’t own their stock (and have no intention of buying), and have never owned a Nokia product before (and think it unlikely that I’ll be buying one). In contrast, I own a lot of Apple stock (and intend to keep buying on dips) and have purchased a number of Apple products (including iPhone). So I have no horse in this race. “It just irritates me” when people insist on making hyperbolic/outlandish statements and then want to argue them as though they are true.
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GotWake
I’m with you, I have nothing for or against NOK, but saying NOK hasn’t done anything innovative since 2006 isn’t outlandish. You seem to get hung up on me mentioning R&D. I probably should have just mentioned innovation. I really don’t see what it matters. I know they spend a huge amount of money on R&D, but it hasn’t helped them over the last 4 years.
You want to argue over “sales vs profit”. I simple made a statement about how companies like NOK should focus on saving themselves. Reduction in market share, no smartphone contender in the past 4 years, CEO on the exit, reduced profits all seem to back up my statement.
You just happen to one of those people that can disagree with just about any statement. Someone says that the sky is blue today and you say but I see clouds. The whole argument seems a bit silly. Technically, you haven’t said anything incorrect. But, has anything you’ve said really relevant to anything? Not really
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rastard
“I simple made a statement about how companies like NOK should focus on saving themselves.”
Um, no, you didn’t simple do that at all. You specifically called Nokia out for “focusing on Apple” (and then for “laughing at Apple”), which was an unsupported and hyperbolic statement (that for some reason you seem to want to continue to defend here).
I’m disagreeing with you primarily because your comments on this thread have repeatedly been inaccurate. I didn’t want to argue about sales vs. profit at all — that’s something *you* did (“You seem to be impressed that Nokia sells more volume than Apple. The rest of us(at least me) define ‚Äúin the game‚Äù as profit made from those sells.”)
Nor am I hung up on “R&D” — that was sworoc (although imo he’s actually correct). Have I said anything relevant to anything? I don’t know — perhaps not. But I’ll reiterate my points explicitly to prevent any further misunderstanding:
1. Nokia is still selling more Smartphones than anyone else — by far. Symbian is still the dominant smartphone OS in terms of number of users.
2. They may be sucking big rocks in terms of their profit decline, but their profits in this sector still appear to surpass everyone *besides* Apple.
3. There are a lot of smart people working at Nokia, who have developed much of the core technology that *all* mobile phones use today.
4. Nokia has huge brand recognition (albeit not in the US), apparently has a stellar reputation among their users, and historically has had a good amount of brand loyalty as well [yes, citations needed].
5. NOK has been sliding for only about 3-4 years. Keep in mind though that Apple was in the dumps for far longer than that, and in a period of only about 10 years went from the verge of extinction to the most profitable tech company in the world.Do I think Apple needs to “worry”? No, not at all. But based on the points above, we shouldn’t discount Nokia either. Or ridicule them (and yes, you did that: “Here‚Äôs a little advice for Nokia… you may want to do a little development in that R&D department. Surely, there is someone with a little innovation at NOK.”)
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sworoc
Oh, I see where you’re confused. You seem to think any mobile device is a smartphone.
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Zee
i just finished watching cnet.uk’s flora graham on the bbc’s business news, reporting on Nokia’s debut of new phones in london. better, but still, not quite there. and nokia’s spokesman at the convention centre looked very tense, hot, and greasy. the only other time i ever saw anyone look so freaked out was when rim’s vp had to present the bb storm to the world.
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Senator Gronk
A little off-topic, but an option for Nokia…
If I were Nokia I’d start developing smart phones that are phones first. With the growth of the iPad I see a nice little market for phones that lack the complexity of the smart phone but still provide data-network tools like weather, email checking (not necessarily responding), RSS, weather, maps (current-location-focussed), etc.
I get tired of my iPhone on days when I have to communicate, and no, no other smart phone would be better. I want to place calls and then hang up in rapid succession. Something painful on every smart phone I’ve handled. No reason you can’t put a high-resolution display on top of a single numeric keypad and have access to all the same data as a smartphone, but not have to wrestle with your music and movies to place and receive calls.
If I could carry a phone like this next to an iPad, I’d ditch my iPhone in a heartbeat.
Just my 2c
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sworoc
Good point Senator, and most of the high-end Nokia devices are similar to what you’re describing, except for possibly simplicity. In fact, this article not only describes Nokia’s popularity in sales while simultaneously mentioning the struggle in the smartphone dept, but also talks about the N8 which sounds somewhat close to what you described.
http://www.fiercemobileit.com/story/nokia-unveils-new-smartphones/2010-09-14
The biggest thing about this is the mention that there are no plans to sell it in the USA, the very same market where Android, Blackberry, and iPhone are popular. They need to step out, promote, and sell their high-end phones to really be considered “in the game” for smartphones. They sell a ton of phones, but none of them really compete this market.
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conshmillo
@Senator Gronk
Easy remedy for that would be simple iPhone reorganization by Apple. This is how it would work:
1. No slider to unlock, instead when you turn your phone on:
2. swipe up (vertical) unlocks and enters dumb phone (iPhone app)
swipe right (horizontal) enters the smart phone (standard main screen)Other option could be to turn your iPhone on and shake, it would take you immediately to your phone.
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rastard
“Oh, I see where you‚Äôre confused. You seem to think any mobile device is a smartphone.”
Um, no. I’m not confused at all. I’m just using Gartner’s stats on what *they* define as a smartphone. If it’s still not clear to you, here’s the header for Table 2:
“Table 2
Worldwide SMARTPHONE Sales to End Users by Operating System in 2Q10 (Thousands of Units)”If for whatever reason you don’t like the numbers from whatever definition of a Smartphone that Gartner is using, you can always try the one that IDC uses instead:
http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS22449510 :
“Nokia remained the clear number 1 SMARTPHONE vendor worldwide…”
Perhaps you’re the one who is “confused”?
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Johnexo
I’ve been a hardcore Nokia user for a decade, I’ve had countless Nokia phones during that time and I can’t recall a time when Nokia was as far behind the competition as they are now. Three years after the iphone launched I’m about to jettison Symbian for an Apple or Android product, I’m not waiting any longer. Clearly the outgoing CEO stayed far too long, he was an accountant need I say more.
http://www.applereviewed.net/nokia-slams-apple-declares-a-smartphone-war.html -
RattyUK
Seems a shame then that the N8 appears to be plagued with “power issues”
BARCELONA/HELSINKI (Reuters) РNokia, the world’s top cellphone maker, said on Friday some of its flagship N8 smartphones were sold with a power fault that meant they switched themselves off.
The success of the N8—Nokia’s first real challenge to Apple’s iPhone , more than three years after its launch—is seen as crucial to Nokia’s profit margins in the current quarter, analysts say.
Nokia sales chief Niklas Savander said “a limited number of N8 users” were facing the problem of their phones switching off, and they are not able to turn them on again.
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http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/26656/
I wonder if they will bury them next to the Kin? It’s funny how it has only taken MS 3 years to develop WM7 and it’s barely on par with a gen 1 iPhone: no copy and paste, no multitasking, no VPN, no HTML5.
Sounds like someone is going to have a funeral.
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conshmillo
Isn’t that a most ridiculous thing
It is funny because with those black&white Windows logos on backs of those dudes it actually looks like Microsoft’s funeral! Which it pretty much is. I guess this is what Microsoft people think word cool means. -
mikeinmontreal
If you click on the pic, it brings you to the link. You should see the comments. Their fanboys are as bad as we are. Some are actually awaiting these phones impatiently.
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Zee
@mikeinmontreal
hey miker. did you look at secretcinema.org?(gallery). msft is throwing lots of money into that. it’s 2 kids, brothers, just out of film school, who are putting filmic happenings on around the world, simultaneously too, like a global rave, under london bridge was one site … i think that’s kind of what’s inspiring msft to get phantasmagorical. the bb was also funeralized, but they left out android for some reason. i don’t think it’ll necessarily matter how limited wm7 is if they make the platform boundless for the creatives who’re likely to be positioning themselves towards pushing out content. they’ve got 500 million assigned to promoting wm7. that’s a lot of money, especially if they go off the wall.last night, i did a survey. craigslist has at least 5-600 cities and countries selling stuff. so i combed through, maybe 50, of the obvious places, doing searches for, bb, iphone, apple, and sometimes nokia sellers, looking for comparative numbers, action and reflective pattern… my conclusion re the iphone was h.f. wow. it’s obvious apple is walking away with half the profits. now you’d imagine that rim would also have a strong showing among those global markets too on craigslist, since they’ve always announced higher units shipped per quarter than apple. but. it looks like they’re just there, but in very poor numbers by comparison. and that’s it. they’re there, but there’s no spark or action. there’s nothing random. just a sprinkling of pipes in small numbers that look plugged and praying for a consumer. no sparks. no wtb postings. it could be argued that there’s lots of headroom, but that seems more sarcastic and unreasonable to anticipate materializing, as things are. maybe accounts receivable will reflect that on earnings. even in waterloo the iphone’s popularity is overwhelming. on another note. i have a feeling that from device sales things pored down to app developers and the next area will be content and commercializing it. this must be why bce bought ctv, who said they make surprisingly more money off their tv pipes than telephone users?, but i really haven’t bothered to look into it. ctv though looks like such a snorefest, it’s like a meeting of the teacher’s union in 1950. lately i’ve been catching lang and o’leary bickering on the cbc about money and stuff, he’s on wiki too. i saw her once in the middle of the night at the grocery store. i thought she was going to steal my dog at 4 in the morning… it was even weirder seeing the last 2 guys that did the national news naked in the sauna at the gym in the morning, kind of surreal… jmo lol.
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Senator Gronk
@mikeinmontreal
Those aren’t just fanboys. There’s more than one MS employee trying to defend themselves. Saying ridiculous things like “Steve would never let this happen at Apple!” Umm… Apple is too busy adding value to their products and their stock price to eff-around with some ridiculous mock funeral. There’s so much to say about the whole event that it’s not even worth tackling.I’ll just say that if WinMo7 buries Apple in 2 years so be it. It would be such a preposterous turn of events that I figure I wouldn’t care because I’d suddenly think that a convertible Sebring would be a good idea, amongst other ridiculous scenarios…
Not that there’s anything wrong with a convertible Sebring… ; )
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I know……..Shocker!!
Tablets with no apps and no optimized OS makes devices like the Galaxy Tab useless.
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Well, I want to be the first to start on the great msft.
Maybe it’s just me, but has Apple secretly bought up all of the great ad agencies? It’s as of no one in the tech world has a friggin clue on how to market their products.
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conshmillo
That is quite descriptive of Microsoft. 40 seconds of 1 minute ad is mirage. Remaining “clear” part of the message is boring static uneventful picture of bad design (of both phone, and graphics in that ad).
To be fair though, it was almost as boring as new iTunes logo.
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http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/26570/
This would be funny if it wasn’t true.
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rastard
The video would be funny if it was, well, actually funny.
It isn’t (and that has nothing to do with it being true… or not). It just isn’t funny. Period.
It’s just creepy (i.e. Consumer Watchdog was *very* successful in evoking the sensations it had in mind when it created the toon).
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Zee
Rastard. For many, creepy as a genre is extremely funny; oddly enough. According to Aristotle one of the wonderful things about the dramatic arts is that people can experience things vicariously. I’ve never been a fan of gory films or anything that was too gratuitously perverted. Nevertheless. I had a pass to a film festival. So I decided to check out a slasher film during one of the midnight madness offerings. I took an aisle seat towards the side at the front so I could watch the audience watching the film when I was curious of their reactions. First of all no two audiences are alike. But if you filmed the audience that I saw watching the slasher film, you’d have thought they were watching the best comedy during the film festival. That experience was one of the most surprising things that I’d ever witnessed. And it shed a new light on my thoughts and memories of living and walking around the Roman Colosseum. I never mentioned this to someone that told me they were going to organize a performance of graduating doctors. But I did suggest they create a musical. And I mentioned what could be done with special effects and prosthetics. They weren’t amused. Then again few seemed to be versed today on the rich history of medical humor. Humor is not a bad way of handling difficult things. Its human nature. If the Consumer Watchdog video was without humor then it’d be pure propaganda. What’s the difference? Propaganda often has no substance whatsoever. So I agree with GotWake’s position on what would appear to be funny and an example of dramatic irony.
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rastard
“If the Consumer Watchdog video was without humor then it‚Äôd be pure propaganda. What‚Äôs the difference? Propaganda often has no substance whatsoever.”
Um yeah, exactly: http://techrights.org/2009/05/04/consumer-watchdog-exposed/
Reasonable people can disagree and everyone here has a right to keep their own opinion on Google, but for me — the cartoon was nothing but substance-less anti-Google propaganda:
- It purports that Schmidt reads your e-mails and search history,
- and then shares that personal information with others indiscriminately in a way that is purposefully harmful.
- It portrays him as a creepy pedophile.That’s not “dramatic irony” — it’s the lowest form of FUD and personal attack possible.
Google has never proven to do serious harm even in an unintentional way, let alone as maliciously as portrayed. Sure — they have a *lot* of information, that most certainly has the potential to be misused and abused. But they haven’t done that. Instead, they’ve stood up to China. They’ve stood up and challenged U.S. Government subpoenas for user information, when all of their competitors bent over and gave the info up. They’ve led the entire industry in establishing dashboards and tools to help their own users anonymize or delete the information that they have (on Google services).
So yeah, it’s not funny. Btw, you want some “dramatic irony”? Here’s some:
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Today the fire department stopped by my business to do their annual fire inspection. One guy comes walking in with a tablet. He proceeds to set it up so he can use his portable keyboard. He tells me it has a built in keyboard, but he has to use the stylus. During the 30 minutes the guys were doing the inspection, he was trying to pull the business name up with the stylus. After he changed a few things, they decided they needed to print a copy for me. One goes back out to the truck for the bag with the printer. After about 15 minutes screwing around trying to print a report. They finally took a form and filled it out by hand.
It was the most asinine effing thing I have seen in a while. It really highlights what the tablet market looked like before Apple entered with the iPad. Let me rephrase that, what the tablet market looks like right now.
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I guess I understand what Dell is trying to accomplish, but it seems a little stupid advertising for your competitor. Everyone on the planet already thinks that Apple products are more expensive than the competition. It looks more like an Apple to Lemons ad to me
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I think this article really puts everything in perspective. Apple doesn’t sacrifice profits for market share. When everyone is talking about the next iPhone killer, just remember: 3% market share with 2 times more profit than the rest of the cell industry.
sworoc 12:30 pm on September 23, 2010 604 days ago Reply
Surely that’s fake, surely……
JPWatkins 12:49 pm on September 23, 2010 604 days ago Reply
Win 7 and a Control-Alt-Del button!
Looks amazingly 1990′s to me.
demoman 2:08 pm on September 23, 2010 604 days ago Reply
Craptastic, but i’m betting it’s real. And the funny thing is that now Apple has managed to create a market for tablets, there will be a subset of haters/Windows die-hards that buy this just to spite the success of iPad.
The side button to bring up and put away the onscreen keyboard is classic! Battery life (the most compelling feature of the iPad, imo) is going to be a box of hurt.
sworoc 2:35 pm on September 23, 2010 604 days ago Reply
Major flaws that I see:
1) Boot up time
2) On-screen keyboard button
3) Running unmodified “desktop” applications that need the precision of a mouse
What you end up with is a terrible user experience, and I’m sure battery life will be disappointing as well. I’m a PC user most of the time, and I even I can see that the iPad is a vastly better experience.
I’m still holding out for a tablet that has whatever Google is cooking with the new version of Android, as they have publicly said that the current Android isn’t meant for tablets. This seems to mean that they have some ideas, and it could be a much better product than this thing. However, I doubt it will trump the iPad.
GotWake 3:12 pm on September 23, 2010 604 days ago Reply
If this is real, it is probably the Slate back before the Palm purchase. Just from comments from HP, I would expect that the HP Slate will be a webOS machine.
http://www.hpslate.org/News/hps-peter-helm-talks-up-the-hp-slate-yet-says-so-little/
conshmillo 5:07 pm on September 23, 2010 604 days ago Reply
This was my response about 1 minute into the video, when it finally hit me that IT IS REAL and that guy’s superlative comments are totally off the base:
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAh
lol